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Post by Miege22 on Jan 12, 2021 22:22:45 GMT -5
OK, so here is the full proposal:
1. All off-season signings may be traded or waived immediately upon approval of this proposal.
2. Any FA signing made from this point forward will only face a dead period of 10 DAYS, instead of 30 DAYS. They may be traded or waived starting on the 10th day.
3. Two COVID IR spots will be added that can ONLY be used on players that either currently have COVID or are forced to quarantine due to contact tracing. 4. When a player is placed on COVID IR, the team may then bid on a free agent to fill that player's roster spot until the player is returned to the active lineup. When the COVID IR player returns, the FA signing must be released back to the FA pool UNLESS the team has another roster spot open up due to COVID.
5. Teams will receive $2,000,000 that can be used on COVID-related signings, and COVID-related signings only. This money does not get returned when a COVID signing is released. The team has $2 million total to use on any COVID signing. They can use it all on one player, or split it up. COVID bids can also only be for one year, so years are not necessary on bids. Teams can ONLY used COVID money on COVID bids. You MAY NOT use regular cap space.
6. When making a COVID-related FA bid, you MUST note in the thread that it's COVID-related AND include the player who is being moved to COVID IR.
7. When someone bids on a player due to COVID, only other teams attempting to make a COVID-related signing may bid on that player.
8. If a free agent is bid on through normal means, they may not received COVID-related bids.
9. To expedite signings for COVID, any COVID-related bid will only face a 12-hour clock. All normal FA bids will still be on the clock for 24 hours.
AS AN EXAMPLE:
Dorian Finney-Smith of the Nets is forced to quarantine due to COVID. The Nets may move him to COVID IR and place a bid on a free agent. Let's say they place a FA bid on Cory Joseph. The bid must look like this:
SUBJECT: Cory Joseph COVID BID
$250,000
Dorian Finney-Smith to COVID IR
At that point, other teams will have 12 hours to bid on the player.
That's the basics. If anyone sees any issues or has additional ideas or thoughts, please comment below. Vote ASAP. This will go into effect with a simple majority vote (11 votes one way or the other).
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Sir Poopy, Duke of Poop
Owner
Chief Justice Sir Poopy
I am the ruler of chaos and I am here to disobey rules!!!
Posts: 1,360
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Post by Sir Poopy, Duke of Poop on Jan 12, 2021 23:00:57 GMT -5
No league handouts! This isn't a charity league! I object!
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Post by razorbacks on Jan 13, 2021 0:05:48 GMT -5
Not sure about everyone else but I only have so much time in the day for NBA fantasy which I already spend too much as it is ... this would add ALOT more time to be active & competitive
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Post by octstuff23/MagicGM on Jan 13, 2021 3:42:39 GMT -5
I am against. I can always win TO's category when my players sit because of Covid.
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Post by Kots (Colorado GM) on Jan 13, 2021 4:42:47 GMT -5
This is no different to if your team is decimated by injury. Suck it up princess's and play by our rules in place. Rules should not be changed during a season IMO.
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Post by Kots (Colorado GM) on Jan 13, 2021 4:44:03 GMT -5
And by the way I assume we are all male in this league - lmao
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Post by two0six on Jan 13, 2021 4:44:16 GMT -5
I voted against because I don't agree with all of the suggestions about COVID bidding.
I actually agree with #1-#3, and think the rest can be improvised to something else.
10 Day contracts might be easier for everyone and more fair (Im not too big on a COVID eligible team able to basically kick out an non COVID eligible team in a potential bidding war that the non COVID eligible team started).
If you are the first player to bid on an eligible free agent you would win them for 10 days, after that you have the option of extended for another 10 days.. then maybe a final option of keeping the player for the rest of the season.
Extra COVID spots and one potential 10 day contract might be fair enough for everyone.
Thoughts?
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Post by MemphisGM on Jan 13, 2021 6:29:13 GMT -5
I abstain for now, because I don't agree with all the proposed rules. In short; OK with the shorter dead period (maybe more in proportion to length of season so 10 instead of 30 might be too short) and extra IR spots for COVID, but not the extra budget and differentiation with regular FA bids. That makes it very messy for just a small benefit, and I think managers should already keep some spare cap in case of emergency.
OK: 1. All off-season signings may be traded or waived immediately upon approval of this proposal. 2. Any FA signing made from this point forward will only face a dead period of 10 DAYS, instead of 30 DAYS. They may be traded or waived starting on the 10th day. 3. Two COVID IR spots will be added that can ONLY be used on players that either currently have COVID or are forced to quarantine due to contact tracing. 4. When a player is placed on COVID IR, the team may then bid on a free agent to fill that player's roster spot until the player is returned to the active lineup. When the COVID IR player returns, the FA signing must be released back to the FA pool UNLESS the team has another roster spot open up due to COVID.
NOT OK: 5. Teams will receive $2,000,000 that can be used on COVID-related signings, and COVID-related signings only. This money does not get returned when a COVID signing is released. The team has $2 million total to use on any COVID signing. They can use it all on one player, or split it up. COVID bids can also only be for one year, so years are not necessary on bids. Teams can ONLY used COVID money on COVID bids. You MAY NOT use regular cap space. - Too much administration to keep track of for the benefits it should give. I think it's fine to use existing cap for this.
6. When making a COVID-related FA bid, you MUST note in the thread that it's COVID-related AND include the player who is being moved to COVID IR. - Why not use the same rules as the regular IR? We don't have to mention in a FA bid that we just placed a player on the IR, so I don't think it's necessary for COVID IR either.
7. When someone bids on a player due to COVID, only other teams attempting to make a COVID-related signing may bid on that player. - This will get unnecessarily messy, and one of the reasons I'm not in favor of a separate COVID budget. If anything, it should work like a D-league offer, that a normal FA bid trumps the COVID offer.
8. If a free agent is bid on through normal means, they may not received COVID-related bids. - Should not be necessary.
9. To expedite signings for COVID, any COVID-related bid will only face a 12-hour clock. All normal FA bids will still be on the clock for 24 hours. - Again not neccessary, and risky with all different timezones we have.
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Post by Miege22 on Jan 13, 2021 8:24:04 GMT -5
Perhaps it would have been more helpful to explain the reasoning behind the proposed rules. I believe the proposal as a whole has some straightforward reasoning behind it. COVID has already decimated a handful of teams and impacted outcomes. I know some might say, "well, injuries happen every year, and those are unpredictable," and while that may be true, injuries to players to then force OTHER players to sit out for a week merely for being around said injured player. And given that COVID has impacted more than just one or two teams, I believe opening up something to the entire league is the most fair thing to do. So I'll go through each rule one by one with the thought process:
1. Simply a way to open up options for teams. Fairly straightforward.
2. See #1
3. Initially, I was going to say just one, but given the disproportionate impact it has had on teams (for example, Washington currently has three players quarantining), and the way the NBA has approached contact tracing, two seems fair.
4. Again, if we're going to have COVID IR, it only makes sense to have COVID replacements.
5. Here's where I think I should have explained my thought process a little more. Why separate cap space and COVID money? Well, it would simply be easier to track. Right now, I'm tracking all free agent bids, which is fine because I really don't ask other mods to do it, and I think in some ways it is easier if just one person is doing it. Keeping them separate allows me, and other mods, a clean and easy way to follow along a bid. If everyone is working from the same pool of money, it's not all that difficult. The other reason to separate it, and to provide COVID money in the first place rather than forcing teams to use regular cap space, is because this is an unforeseen rule change. There is literally no way for a team to know before the season that extra roster spots would become available, and I'm not going to penalize anyone for going right up to the cap with their current roster. No one team is safe from COVID impacting them, so it just feels more fair and safer to give everyone additional money to work with.
6. Again, simple enough, and very helpful for mods.
7. This is another one that I thought quite a bit about. I initially thought it would be fair to allow non-COVID teams to bid, but, again, the issue would be tracking. Having to track a COVID bid vs. a regular bid, while also keeping in mind the different clocks for both, would just be a nightmare. I know an objection might be that a non-COVID team might want to bid on said player, and I get that... but I think that falls flat because COVID bids are very likely to last for only a week or two, so the non-COVID team would have the opportunity to sign said player soon after the COVID team.
8. Again, simple. No allowing a team to suddenly change up the process after it's started. Plus, and I should have mentioned this part, it also goes for the additional funds too. No using COVID money on regular bids.
9. I understand the objections about everyone being in different time zones and that impacting this, but I figure a COVID-related bid would not have all 20 teams interested. It might have 5 or 6. At that point, if we are going to worry about time zones impacting 5 or 6 teams, nothing will ever get accomplished.
I will try and go through the individual concerns and objections that weren't covered above later this morning.
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Post by Miege22 on Jan 13, 2021 9:18:11 GMT -5
No league handouts! This isn't a charity league! I object! This is not a handout. This is trying to put together as fair a season as possible given the unique circumstances. Every single team will have the same rules and regulations to follow. I am against. I can always win TO's category when my players sit because of Covid. This is not productive. This is no different to if your team is decimated by injury. Suck it up princess's and play by our rules in place. Rules should not be changed during a season IMO. As I stated briefly in the reasoning, this is in no way similar to being decimated by injury. Never in the history of the sport has someone spraining an ankle forced three other players to miss an entire week of games, nor has it canceled future games. Saying this is similar to injury is like calling COVID the flu. It's being intentionally obstinate. I voted against because I don't agree with all of the suggestions about COVID bidding. I actually agree with #1-#3, and think the rest can be improvised to something else. 10 Day contracts might be easier for everyone and more fair (Im not too big on a COVID eligible team able to basically kick out an non COVID eligible team in a potential bidding war that the non COVID eligible team started).
If you are the first player to bid on an eligible free agent you would win them for 10 days, after that you have the option of extended for another 10 days.. then maybe a final option of keeping the player for the rest of the season. Extra COVID spots and one potential 10 day contract might be fair enough for everyone. Thoughts?
The 10-day contract is not a bad idea, and what I had initially kicked around. The problem with the 10-day contract is the contact tracing part of it. Some guys are forced to quarantine for 5 days. Some for 7. Some for 14. I do not like the idea of a team being able to keep a healthy player on COVID IR, which is why I tied the COVID FA to the IR player's eligibility. Frankly, it's simpler that way. COVID IR guy comes back, COVID FA goes away. Easy. I abstain for now, because I don't agree with all the proposed rules. In short; OK with the shorter dead period (maybe more in proportion to length of season so 10 instead of 30 might be too short) and extra IR spots for COVID, but not the extra budget and differentiation with regular FA bids. That makes it very messy for just a small benefit, and I think managers should already keep some spare cap in case of emergency. OK: 1. All off-season signings may be traded or waived immediately upon approval of this proposal. 2. Any FA signing made from this point forward will only face a dead period of 10 DAYS, instead of 30 DAYS. They may be traded or waived starting on the 10th day. 3. Two COVID IR spots will be added that can ONLY be used on players that either currently have COVID or are forced to quarantine due to contact tracing. 4. When a player is placed on COVID IR, the team may then bid on a free agent to fill that player's roster spot until the player is returned to the active lineup. When the COVID IR player returns, the FA signing must be released back to the FA pool UNLESS the team has another roster spot open up due to COVID. NOT OK: 5. Teams will receive $2,000,000 that can be used on COVID-related signings, and COVID-related signings only. This money does not get returned when a COVID signing is released. The team has $2 million total to use on any COVID signing. They can use it all on one player, or split it up. COVID bids can also only be for one year, so years are not necessary on bids. Teams can ONLY used COVID money on COVID bids. You MAY NOT use regular cap space. - Too much administration to keep track of for the benefits it should give. I think it's fine to use existing cap for this. 6. When making a COVID-related FA bid, you MUST note in the thread that it's COVID-related AND include the player who is being moved to COVID IR. - Why not use the same rules as the regular IR? We don't have to mention in a FA bid that we just placed a player on the IR, so I don't think it's necessary for COVID IR either. 7. When someone bids on a player due to COVID, only other teams attempting to make a COVID-related signing may bid on that player. - This will get unnecessarily messy, and one of the reasons I'm not in favor of a separate COVID budget. If anything, it should work like a D-league offer, that a normal FA bid trumps the COVID offer. 8. If a free agent is bid on through normal means, they may not received COVID-related bids. - Should not be necessary. 9. To expedite signings for COVID, any COVID-related bid will only face a 12-hour clock. All normal FA bids will still be on the clock for 24 hours. - Again not neccessary, and risky with all different timezones we have. I think I covered the objected rules in my follow up post, but just to reiterate, separating the money actually makes this easier to track as everyone is working from the same amount in their pool. If we don't do that, then it becomes a nightmare for me to track because everyone has different amounts to work with. Not sure about everyone else but I only have so much time in the day for NBA fantasy which I already spend too much as it is ... this would add ALOT more time to be active & competitive This is a fair concern, and one that had not crossed my mind. However, my response to this would be that we are already set up in such a way that teams can choose to be less active and, in all likelihood, less competitive. I'm not sure how much time this would really add for teams as it is all fairly straightforward. It would also be limited to the rest of this season only, as the hope would be that this situation is figured out by the time next season starts.
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Post by moltreszwarriors on Jan 13, 2021 9:22:48 GMT -5
I think 1 and 2 are fine but I am otherwise opposed. I think this adds a ton of complication and time, will make the free agent pool absolutely terrible which changes the way the league works (I first signed Jokic for a minimum in-season), makes the free agent market way more complicated and arbitrary, I don't understand why there's a sudden injection of cap. It's a crazy time right now and I don't want to have to worry about 12 hour clocks for a COVID bidding war on Raul Neto every time one of my players gets COVID. Yes, COVID increases the arbitrariness of fantasy, but this probably barely makes that go away and just adds a bunch of headache. Who counts as COVID-IR: just the people with COVID, or the players in protocols, or players who have their games cancelled or delayed? We all knew COVID would factor into our season, potentially built our teams accordingly, and there's no great solution. Also, I think just as some people are more injury-prone, you could argue some players are more prone to break COVID protocols (i.e. Michael Porter Jr. and Kyrie vs. Steph Curry).
If we do move forward with this, I would at prefer that there be only one COVID IR spot and that any COVID signing has to go back in the free agent pool after 10 days so there is no advantage for teams who happen to get struck by COVID at the wrong time. But again, nothing we implement will be perfect and I don't see a way not to add a ton of headache while still having minimal impact.
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Post by octstuff23/MagicGM on Jan 13, 2021 9:30:04 GMT -5
I am thinking that we should have some claiming system. No additional funds needed and you get your player in the moment you need him, not after hours of bidding. Salary could be set in minimum or something like that. Anyway I am still against it.
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Post by Miege22 on Jan 13, 2021 9:33:17 GMT -5
To be honest, I think the bottom line in all of this is simple: this is an unprecedented situation that is adversely impacting teams in a wildly disproportionate manner. We can either attempt to rectify it now and move forward, or we can live with the consequences of not acting, whatever they may be.
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Post by Miege22 on Jan 13, 2021 9:37:58 GMT -5
I think 1 and 2 are fine but I am otherwise opposed. I think this adds a ton of complication and time, will make the free agent pool absolutely terrible which changes the way the league works (I first signed Jokic for a minimum in-season), makes the free agent market way more complicated and arbitrary, I don't understand why there's a sudden injection of cap. It's a crazy time right now and I don't want to have to worry about 12 hour clocks for a COVID bidding war on Raul Neto every time one of my players gets COVID. Yes, COVID increases the arbitrariness of fantasy, but this probably barely makes that go away and just adds a bunch of headache. Who counts as COVID-IR: just the people with COVID, or the players in protocols, or players who have their games cancelled or delayed? We all knew COVID would factor into our season, potentially built our teams accordingly, and there's no great solution. Also, I think just as some people are more injury-prone, you could argue some players are more prone to break COVID protocols (i.e. Michael Porter Jr. and Kyrie vs. Steph Curry). If we do move forward with this, I would at prefer that there be only one COVID IR spot and that any COVID signing has to go back in the free agent pool after 10 days so there is no advantage for teams who happen to get struck by COVID at the wrong time. But again, nothing we implement will be perfect and I don't see a way not to add a ton of headache while still having minimal impact. 1. Adds complication and time - I'm not sure I see how this makes things more complicated. Time, maybe, though not really since COVID clocks are shorter. If anything, it speeds things up. From a complication standpoint, separating the money and COVID bids out actually makes things less complicated because everyone is working from the same basic parameters. As opposed to the way things work now, which would be far more confusing to someone unfamiliar with the league. This way, everyone works from the same cash pool, and we keep COVID bidding and regular bidding separate. 2. Injection of cap reasoning - I explained this in my follow up post 3. Who qualifies - This is explained in rule number 3 of my original post 4. Probably makes no impact and causes headaches - I mean, we all know what the problem is. We can see that it's a problem. We can attempt to act and try what we can to rectify it, or we can say screw it, we're too deep into it anyway. The way I would put it is this: the dam is leaking. We can see it leaking, and we can try and fix it before it breaks. If we attempt to fix it, it still might break, who knows. But if we don't try, it will break, and we'll just have to hope our season makes it through. Because if our season doesn't make it to the playoffs... we're going to have much more difficult conversations. 5. Some players are more likely to break protocol - I'm sorry, but no, I'm not buying this one. Not when we've seen how this can impact people and players who ARE treating this with the utmost respect and caution
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Post by fernans (MIAMI HEAT) on Jan 13, 2021 10:03:38 GMT -5
OK, so here is the full proposal: 1. All off-season signings may be traded or waived immediately upon approval of this proposal. 2. Any FA signing made from this point forward will only face a dead period of 10 DAYS, instead of 30 DAYS. They may be traded or waived starting on the 10th day. 3. Two COVID IR spots will be added that can ONLY be used on players that either currently have COVID or are forced to quarantine due to contact tracing. 4. When a player is placed on COVID IR, the team may then bid on a free agent to fill that player's roster spot until the player is returned to the active lineup. When the COVID IR player returns, the FA signing must be released back to the FA pool UNLESS the team has another roster spot open up due to COVID. 5. Teams will receive $2,000,000 that can be used on COVID-related signings, and COVID-related signings only. This money does not get returned when a COVID signing is released. The team has $2 million total to use on any COVID signing. They can use it all on one player, or split it up. COVID bids can also only be for one year, so years are not necessary on bids. Teams can ONLY used COVID money on COVID bids. You MAY NOT use regular cap space. 6. When making a COVID-related FA bid, you MUST note in the thread that it's COVID-related AND include the player who is being moved to COVID IR. 7. When someone bids on a player due to COVID, only other teams attempting to make a COVID-related signing may bid on that player. 8. If a free agent is bid on through normal means, they may not received COVID-related bids. 9. To expedite signings for COVID, any COVID-related bid will only face a 12-hour clock. All normal FA bids will still be on the clock for 24 hours. AS AN EXAMPLE: Dorian Finney-Smith of the Nets is forced to quarantine due to COVID. The Nets may move him to COVID IR and place a bid on a free agent. Let's say they place a FA bid on Cory Joseph. The bid must look like this: SUBJECT: Cory Joseph COVID BID $250,000 Dorian Finney-Smith to COVID IR At that point, other teams will have 12 hours to bid on the player. That's the basics. If anyone sees any issues or has additional ideas or thoughts, please comment below. Vote ASAP. This will go into effect with a simple majority vote (11 votes one way or the other). I don't really have the time to get into this right now but I agree with 1 and 2 (and think this should be implemented for every season and not just this messed up one) but I disagree with the rest. When I have some time I'll provide some explanation. For now I'll hold off on voting.
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