Tampa Bay Bull Sharks
Moderator
2012 NBA Champions, 2015 NBA Champions, 2016 NBA Champions, 2024 GM League Cup Champions
Posts: 2,922
|
Post by Tampa Bay Bull Sharks on Jan 13, 2021 10:04:09 GMT -5
I don’t see how you can add a covid IR spot without adding a “covid cap” as well.
The proposed rule injects the cash to only be used on players signed due to covid. It’s a separate set of funds.
The reason you need a separate set of funds is because that player drops off the roster once your covid player comes off Covid IR.
You cannot add a covid IR spot and change the waiver/trade policy of FAs. If you add a covid spot and just let the free market take over, you could theoretically sign a player while moving one to covid IR, then when that covid IR player is eligible to come back in 7 days, you wouldn’t have a roster spot for them.
This would create far more cap issues that would bleed into next season.
|
|
|
Post by MemphisGM on Jan 13, 2021 10:04:31 GMT -5
I don't think teams are being penalized without the extra COVID money. Everyone just gets 2 extra spots to fill on their roster. Even if it's unforeseen, it's just something that is granted as an extra, so no penalty. If anything, I think handing out extra money is unfair to teams that did preserve capspace. Again, if you scrap the seperate money it would make everything a lot easier I believe since there's no extra type of bid anymore, as there is not a different type of FA that you can use it one (unlike the specific parameters for D-league players). As these bids are for the same pool of FA players as "regular" teams use, I do think it is necessary to take into account the timezones and 24h clock.
I don't really see the need to have this function in another way than the regular IR. If you put someone on IR, sign a FA, and the IR player gets healthy again you need to make space on your roster too. Only with COVID, you have a good chance you can just put the next guy on the COVID IR to make room.
|
|
|
Post by Miege22 on Jan 13, 2021 10:15:34 GMT -5
I think Tampa's point here:
Is the single most important point being overlooked. COVID IR and regular IR are fundamentally different things due to the nature of the COVID absences (as stated before, could be 3 days, 5, 7, 10 or 14). Treating COVID IR as an off-shoot of regular IR makes things exponentially tougher (and, from a selfish standpoint, would make my life a goddamn nightmare). Keeping them separate is the cleanest, easiest way to track and manage.
|
|
|
Post by Miege22 on Jan 13, 2021 10:16:19 GMT -5
In any event, even if this doesn't pass, this has been quite an illuminating discussion. Frankly, it explains a lot lol
|
|
|
Post by fernans (MIAMI HEAT) on Jan 13, 2021 10:32:18 GMT -5
Alright I'll bite. I definitely think the free agency waiting period has always been a bit too restrictive. I think cutting it in half to 15 days is a good compromise. Ten days might be too low, we would end up somewhat mirroring a Yahoo type league where people constantly pick up and drop players and there is a reason I don't play those leagues.
On everything else, I've always been about keeping things simple. I barely have enough time to dedicate to this league, I can only imagine the man hours Miege puts into this. While he is proposing these rule changes, I just feel it really complicates things. I mean we all knew COVID wasn't going away right? And while there is unpredictability to who gets put under protocol and so forth, it penalizes teams that planned for this. Teams that planned to have cap space, teams that planned to have depth, teams that decided its not worth the risk and threw this season, etc. We are essentially at the mercy of the NBA and to try and start altering rules to keep our season in tact while the NBA falls apart, while at the same time we depend on the NBA, feels reactive to me.
|
|
|
Post by crossover (Golden St. GM) on Jan 13, 2021 10:44:07 GMT -5
I am not sure what all the negative response to this is, this looks like a fair compromise to the unknown situation that covid has put the season in.
Even if this passes who would you really get on the FA market to replace an all star caliber player, nobody.
Any emergency covid rules are in place for this season only and it would give teams a chance to actually roll out a full roster as apposed to the blank ones being played due to quarantine.
|
|
|
Post by crossover (Golden St. GM) on Jan 13, 2021 10:48:36 GMT -5
And just think, we are all healthy and able to debate this in such a trying time.
|
|
|
Post by Miege22 on Jan 13, 2021 10:53:33 GMT -5
Alright I'll bite. I definitely think the free agency waiting period has always been a bit too restrictive. I think cutting it in half to 15 days is a good compromise. Ten days might be too low, we would end up somewhat mirroring a Yahoo type league where people constantly pick up and drop players and there is a reason I don't play those leagues.On everything else, I've always been about keeping things simple. I barely have enough time to dedicate to this league, I can only imagine the man hours Miege puts into this. While he is proposing these rule changes, I just feel it really complicates things. I mean we all knew COVID wasn't going away right? And while there is unpredictability to who gets put under protocol and so forth, it penalizes teams that planned for this. Teams that planned to have cap space, teams that planned to have depth, teams that decided its not worth the risk and threw this season, etc. We are essentially at the mercy of the NBA and to try and start altering rules to keep our season in tact while the NBA falls apart, while at the same time we depend on the NBA, feels reactive to me. It has always been my goal to avoid the bold, so we are in agreement there. I think the waiting period is something we will circle back on in the off-season as a permanent rules change. This second part is really the one I want to address because on the surface it makes sense. However, we aren't just talking about one offs here. If teams were just losing one player here, and one player there, that's one thing. But we're seeing teams lose 2, 3, and 4 players at once to unspecified periods of time. Washington has three players quarantining. I think at one point GS had 4 or 5 guys either positive or in protocols at the same time. At one point my team had four guys in protocol (I realize my team is about as close to an auto win as one can get, but wouldn't everyone rather give all teams a fighting chance?). No team can plan for that. Teams that plan to have depth see all that depth wiped out in one fell swoop. You can plan to have cap space, but what good is that cap space if you can't do anything with the impacted players? That's why I highlighted Tampa Bay's point. You literally cannot have one without the other. As an example, you have three players go into COVID protocols, ok, how do you replace them? Well, use your cap space. Got it, cool. But what about the roster spots? Well, tough luck my friend, you've gotta waive someone. How does that make sense? We all can see that it doesn't. And it's also not one of those things where we can look at a team suffer a bunch of injuries and say, "well, you know, a lot of these guys have a history or injuries, so what did you expect?" This is not that either. As I mentioned above, this can impact even the guys who are being as careful as possible.
|
|
|
Post by Miege22 on Jan 13, 2021 10:55:44 GMT -5
I am not sure what all the negative response to this is, this looks like a fair compromise to the unknown situation that covid has put the season in. Even if this passes who would you really get on the FA market to replace an all star caliber player, nobody.Any emergency covid rules are in place for this season only and it would give teams a chance to actually roll out a full roster as apposed to the blank ones being played due to quarantine. This is a good point, and one I should have highlighted when Houston invoked Jokic's name. That situation is EXTREMELY rare. You name me one in-season FA signing that even became re-sign worthy, and I'll give you 50 names of guys who were waived before the season ended. Furthermore, a COVID bid does nothing to impact another team's ability to sign a guy long-term because a COVID bid, by rule, is a short-term signing unable to extended to the end of the season (and if done at the end of the season, unable to be extended to next season).
|
|
|
Post by crossover (Golden St. GM) on Jan 13, 2021 10:56:48 GMT -5
1. All off-season signings may be traded or waived immediately upon approval of this proposal.
2. Any FA signing made from this point forward will only face a dead period of 10 DAYS, instead of 30 DAYS. They may be traded or waived starting on the 10th day.
These two make sense as the first few weeks have shown a drastic change in our landscape due to covid, a few weeks in and literally teams are made or broken while waiting for the 30 days to come up.
|
|
|
Post by crossover (Golden St. GM) on Jan 13, 2021 11:11:14 GMT -5
3. Two COVID IR spots will be added that can ONLY be used on players that either currently have COVID or are forced to quarantine due to contact tracing.
4. When a player is placed on COVID IR, the team may then bid on a free agent to fill that player's roster spot until the player is returned to the active lineup. When the COVID IR player returns, the FA signing must be released back to the FA pool UNLESS the team has another roster spot open up due to COVID.
5. Teams will receive $2,000,000 that can be used on COVID-related signings, and COVID-related signings only. This money does not get returned when a COVID signing is released. The team has $2 million total to use on any COVID signing. They can use it all on one player, or split it up. COVID bids can also only be for one year, so years are not necessary on bids. Teams can ONLY used COVID money on COVID bids. You MAY NOT use regular cap space.
6. When making a COVID-related FA bid, you MUST note in the thread that it's COVID-related AND include the player who is being moved to COVID IR.
7. When someone bids on a player due to COVID, only other teams attempting to make a COVID-related signing may bid on that player.
8. If a free agent is bid on through normal means, they may not received COVID-related bids.
9. To expedite signings for COVID, any COVID-related bid will only face a 12-hour clock. All normal FA bids will still be on the clock for 24 hours.
There are a lot of new rules here but they are pretty simple and make a lot of sense.
Covid IR spots are reasonable as multiple real life teams have lost a large amount of players due to the virus or contact tracing. Check out the Philly game where they played like seven players!!! or any number of games that have now been postponed.
The cash makes sense as no one planned for the extra casualties coming from covid, it is pretty significant.
New covid signing rules for this year only, check.
The 12 hour clock for covid related bids seems crazy (I get busy at work too) but if you are trying to get a last minute replacement because of covid or contact tracing, why would you not want this?
|
|
Tampa Bay Bull Sharks
Moderator
2012 NBA Champions, 2015 NBA Champions, 2016 NBA Champions, 2024 GM League Cup Champions
Posts: 2,922
|
Post by Tampa Bay Bull Sharks on Jan 13, 2021 11:14:23 GMT -5
I think the other simple point that might be getting overlooked is that no team gains a competitive advantage with any of this.
You can’t use that $2m except on short term covid bids. These rules provide a life raft to teams suffering from the loss of covid impacted players.
|
|
|
Post by MemphisGM on Jan 13, 2021 11:18:37 GMT -5
As an example, you have three players go into COVID protocols, ok, how do you replace them? Well, use your cap space. Got it, cool. But what about the roster spots? Well, tough luck my friend, you've gotta waive someone. How does that make sense? We all can see that it doesn't. Yeah but what about just adding the 2 COVID IR slots, you can put 2 guys there, which makes 2 empty roster spots for FA signings. Then when a COVID guy gets healthy, you'll need to release the FA before you activate the healthy COVID player unless you have another player that you can put on COVID IR (good chance these follow up on each other, or you just have more than 2 COVID players). Managers can decides for themselves how much risk they take by possibly signer FA's for a longer period. I still don't see how it needs to be different. Players with COVID are out for unforeseen times, injured players are out for unforeseen times too? Also I don't see how it would make things easier for either our owners or for you, but feel free to lay that out for me.
|
|
Tampa Bay Bull Sharks
Moderator
2012 NBA Champions, 2015 NBA Champions, 2016 NBA Champions, 2024 GM League Cup Champions
Posts: 2,922
|
Post by Tampa Bay Bull Sharks on Jan 13, 2021 11:38:22 GMT -5
As an example, you have three players go into COVID protocols, ok, how do you replace them? Well, use your cap space. Got it, cool. But what about the roster spots? Well, tough luck my friend, you've gotta waive someone. How does that make sense? We all can see that it doesn't. Yeah but what about just adding the 2 COVID IR slots, you can put 2 guys there, which makes 2 empty roster spots for FA signings. Then when a COVID guy gets healthy, you'll need to release the FA before you activate the healthy COVID player unless you have another player that you can put on COVID IR (good chance these follow up on each other, or you just have more than 2 COVID players). Managers can decides for themselves how much risk they take by possibly signer FA's for a longer period. I still don't see how it needs to be different. Players with COVID are out for unforeseen times, injured players are out for unforeseen times too? Also I don't see how it would make things easier for either our owners or for you, but feel free to lay that out for me. It’s easy. You add the covid cap to your roster page (separate from your cap space) and deduct any covid signings from it. We will also track it. It’s $2M. And I hear you on owners taking their own risk but you cannot add a covid IR spot without a separate covid cap. As Miege said, teams are having 3-4 guys at a time and chances are, that trend will continue. The reason you cannot add a covid IR spot without the cash injunction is because you then are obligating teams to sign a player for the rest of the year. What if you put a guy on covid IR, sign a guy, then your covid IR player comes off the covid IR before your newly signed player is eligible to be waived? You’d have to waive someone else in that case and that hurts owners far more. The covid addendum that’s being proposed benefits owners from locking into guys long term, it enables them to use their existing cap to sign guys long term if they want, and it provides a safety net for every single team in this league.
|
|
|
Post by fernans (MIAMI HEAT) on Jan 13, 2021 12:07:55 GMT -5
does the waived cap hit apply when releasing a covid signed player when the original player becomes eligible and active again?
|
|